Episode 11
74 ::: The One Thing Dentists Get Wrong—Dr. Victor Martel's Bold Advice
In this enlightening episode, host Shawn Zajas sits down with Dr. Victor Martel, a seasoned dentist, speaker, and mentor. Dr. Martel shares his unconventional journey into dentistry, which began when a physician advised him against pursuing medicine and suggested dentistry instead. He recounts how shadowing a charismatic dentist—who later became his mentor and partner—opened his eyes to the possibilities within the dental field.
Throughout the conversation, Dr. Martel emphasizes the crucial balance between clinical excellence and interpersonal skills. He discusses the challenges he faced in dental school, his approach to overcoming mistakes, and the importance of continuous learning beyond just technical skills. Dr. Martel also delves into his experiences with mentoring, public speaking, and the evolving landscape of dentistry, including his thoughts on the rise of corporate dental practices.
The episode offers valuable insights into the importance of adaptability, the art of patient communication, and the significance of leaving a lasting legacy in one's profession. Dr. Martel's candid reflections provide inspiration for both dental professionals and anyone striving to achieve personal and professional fulfillment.
Transcript
So today I have the pleasure of getting to interview Dr. Victor Martel. So am I able to call you Victor on the show? Okay, so before I set you up, I just want to say thank you so much for letting me interview you today.
Victor Martel (:Absolutely.
Victor Martel (:My pleasure, it's good to be here.
Shawn Zajas (:So my podcast, it's really all about the listeners and it's about the listeners that are not in the game. They're the ones that are sitting on the sideline and maybe they're already doing something great. Maybe they're a dentist, maybe they're some dental professional. And yet they still have some sort of dream to do more, but they haven't gotten in the game yet. And that's why I love interviewing people that pioneer like you, Victor, because it's through story and through just getting to share.
Victor Martel (:Mm -hmm.
Shawn Zajas (:the reality of when you took risks and it didn't work out or some of the struggles that I think it empowers other people to be willing to follow the dreams of their heart. So I'm curious a little bit about how did you end up getting into dentistry?
Victor Martel (:Right.
Victor Martel (:That's a great story. Originally, gosh, you know, it's been a long time, but I'll tell you the short version of the story. Originally, I was thinking about going into medicine. And so I was going to, my sister was a lab tech for a medical organization. And she worked for a physician that happened to be a family friend. So I went to his office to shadow him. And, you know, it was going well. And he literally took me out to lunch on the first day.
And he literally said to me, don't be a physician. And I go, why do you say that? And he said to me, you know what? You're gonna work 80, 90 hours a week. You're gonna deal with a lot of insurances. Most of the time, you're gonna be miserable. You're gonna hate it. You're gonna have a call at night. You're gonna have all these things. And granted, this was 30 something years ago. So it was probably much more on call than it is now. And he says to me, be a dentist. And I go, never thought about it.
I had never thought about it at all. And he goes, I'll tell you what I'm gonna do. The guy next door to me in the same office building is a dentist. I'm gonna call him up and you go shadow him for a day as well. So I said, okay, never met the gentleman, a really nice man. I shadow him, you know, he's sitting in his office, he's seeing patients, everybody's just, and he was one of these people that could sell ice to Eskimos. Whatever they said, he just,
They just did it. There was no questions asked. What I didn't realize at the time is that he was highly experienced, had great relationships, had all these things. So I'm just watching him going, wow, that's amazing, right? And he goes, come on, let's go to lunch. We'll have a go out the back. He says, I said, all right, where are we going? He goes, that's my car, it's the Porsche. And we're driving around on this Porsche. And I'm thinking, this is all right. And I asked him a couple of quick questions. You know, how many hours of work a week you work? And he goes, well, I kind of work.
32, but sometimes I'm thinking about cutting back and I just was floored. I never thought about it at all. And so that's pretty much how I decided to just change directions a little bit, for no other reason than that, believe it or not. But the interesting part of the story is once I graduated dental school, through pure coincidence, I came out and was his associate for about two years and then eventually became his partner.
Victor Martel (:And it was just this fate. And he didn't even remember that I had shadowed him. This is how interesting it was. And that's where it all started. And I was just very, very blessed to have him and his partner at the time to be mentors. And they were just incredible dentists. And I mean, to this day, I look back, because I've met a lot of dentists in my life. And they were very highly skilled, incredible people. The second gentleman I learned,
Shawn Zajas (:Wow.
Victor Martel (:a lot of skills from as far as hard skills. The first gentleman that I think I've already stated, like I said, everybody loved him. All the patients loved him. They just did whatever he said to do. So he had all the soft skills. He had all the relationships things. And the other partner was the technical, the clinical. So I was just in this world where all I could do was just absorb. And you know, interestingly enough, I didn't even care if I wasn't busy because and I was
You know, I read about all the things that are going on now and I wasn't paid. I had no guarantees. They didn't guarantee me a day's pay. They said, you're working on commission. That's the way it is. So, but in my mind, I didn't care if I wasn't making any money. I was watching these two great dentists treat patients a certain way relationship wise. The other one being a great clinician and I would just, if I didn't have a patient, I was over their shoulder absorbing everything they did. And that's how this whole.
things started for me that realized that there's a lot more to dentistry than just pulling a tooth and things like that. So that's pretty much the story.
Shawn Zajas (:Well, so even in the early days, do you remember, you shadow someone for a day. I'm guessing you make some quick judgments about, you know, either the ease of dentistry or how it could be. From what you thought dentistry would be like in that little window or peering into it versus when you graduated and all of a sudden you joined them, was there anything that first year or two where you're just like, wow, I wasn't expecting this? Do you remember any kind of shock or?
Victor Martel (:Well, the first shock was dental school itself. I was very shocked at how I didn't enjoy it. Let's put it that way. It was very intense. Many of the instructors, and from what I speak to a lot of dentists when I lecture that are, it seems like a common thread. They're very condescending. They treat you very poorly, and you're just this person with a white lab coat on and the only...
Shawn Zajas (:Victor Martel (06:01.029)
Benefits you get is from day one. They start calling you doctor. That's about it. Other than that I literally and I did well in dental school, but I wanted to get out You know, that was it and you know and for a lot of reasons I was raised very My parents were both low -income and I just knew that if I didn't do something myself and I had three sisters if I didn't do something to make decisions myself and I'm pretty Maybe that's for the reason I'm a pretty decisive person. It doesn't take me long to make a decision
But I knew that if I didn't do something and make a good living I'm gonna be in the same boat not there was anything wrong with it We were poor. We didn't know we were poor. We just you know, it was our family and but I knew that I had to make some choices and then when I got out to To into the I was just blessed by being with these two people that you know, I didn't fall into this Franchise business or anything because it wasn't really around then So here I am All I realized was I?
That guy knows how to talk to people and that guy knows how to do dentistry. And my first couple of years, I just, I was like a sponge. I just absorbed it. Now I will do have a side story. One day a week, I went and worked at a, back then would be called a clinic. You know, I guess it was about as close to you can call a large group DSO, but it wasn't that large. It was a few offices. And I worked there for a day a week besides the time I would work in the private office.
And I would tell you this, and this is his honest truth, they would put this pressure on you to do so much dentistry, you gotta produce, you gotta have these limits or quantities and all, and after about seven months I quit. I couldn't do it. Because they wanted me to sell things to patients that I didn't think they needed. Even being a very naive, unknowledgeable dentist, I kinda had a gut feeling that some of this stuff wasn't necessary, so I went back to my...
two mentors and bosses at the time. And I said, listen, I have to quit there. Can you give me another day? And they said, absolutely. And the reason is I never was at a point where I was worried about, I wasn't married yet and things like that. I didn't have any kids. It wasn't at the point where I needed the income. So I just wanted to absorb and learn. And then eventually I became their partner and it turned out it was a great relationship for quite a number of years. Unfortunately, both of them had passed away.
Victor Martel (:Yeah, that's, it was a surprise, but it's, I see it being a lot different today than it was probably.
Shawn Zajas (:So I'm curious because I don't know if you've read, you know, Kiyosaki's Rich Dad Poor Dad. Okay. So I've read parts of it. With me, I'm like a book collector and I'll dabble, but I never, it's rare that I read a book cover to cover.
Victor Martel (:Mm -hmm. Ahem, yes.
Victor Martel (:Yeah, you're like me. I'm reading four or five books at a time. And as you know, I go from this one, I just did that this morning again. Yeah.
Shawn Zajas (:Yeah.
Shawn Zajas (:So I'm curious, you're saying that you really weren't from wealth, and it doesn't necessarily mean that your parents didn't have that wealth mindset, but were there some mindsets that you had to get rid of in order to get to where you're at today simply because it wasn't taught in your upbringing?
Victor Martel (:Yeah, there was quite a few. In fact, both my parents never even finished high school. That's the first thing. So because of their, and this is true through elementary school for me, for high school, because of their mindset, and maybe it was an unsaid thing, but they never put any pressure on me for school because it wasn't in their, you know, that wasn't how they thought. And I've never, in all those years, never, they never asked for my report card.
They never had a teacher's conference. And I can't explain certain things in my life. All I know is something clicked, I don't know when, where I said, I just got to get this done. And for example, I have three sisters. I'm the only one that went to college. I'm the only one that kept on going. They've got married at young ages. They're still married. God bless them. They have grandchildren and things. But it was just a situation where something happened in my head where I just go.
If I want a different thing, I need to do something different. And therefore, I became an avid reader. I finished, I wasn't a brilliant student. We had a class of 600 because I went to a public school. And I think I finished like 20th or something like that. But it got me to where I was going to go, went to college. And then I got into a grade dental school for me. And it just, I can't explain where my mindset comes from because it's...
In my mind, it was self -motivated and I don't know where I got them.
Shawn Zajas (:Well, that's the interesting thing is that like as I interview people, I find out everyone got a gift from their childhood. And sometimes the gift is very direct, right? Parents that believed in you, mentors. And other times it's what you see that you're like, that's not gonna be me. I'm not gonna be limited because my mom and dad, they want a different life, but they don't know how to get a different life because...
Victor Martel (:Mm -hmm.
Victor Martel (:That's exactly right. That's...
Thank you.
Shawn Zajas (:They don't know how to self -educate. So I'm going to know, I will learn how to learn so that the sky's the limit for me. And it's like, who knows at what age, it sounds like you were really perceptive and wise to begin with, to understand like, huh, I love my parents, but it seems like, I don't know, maybe you saw your dad frustrated at times.
Victor Martel (:my dad had three jobs his entire life. I mean, that was and I saw that right. And, you know, and I not to get into anything personal, there was probably as far as my dad's side of my family. A lot of dysfunction there. And when I speak to people and in my way, I think my brain works is I can learn just as much from learning what not to do as what to do. And.
not to be downgrading, but there's certain things that my dad did when I was very young, not to me or the family, but just personally, that I go, I'm not going to be that. And that's, so therefore I had to figure out a different way. And it was probably, and still to this day, it was probably just trial and error for me because that's how I did everything in life. I just said, well, that didn't work. So let me try something else. And that's how I got to be where I'm at now.
Shawn Zajas (:But even that trial and error mindset, you know, I meet so many people and myself included that the trial part isn't super scary. It's the error part. Like I don't want to try something that's going to work.
Victor Martel (:Absolutely. Yeah, and I say this to dentists all the time. I said, if you're afraid to make mistakes, number one, you're in the wrong business. And maybe that's every business. I'm relaying my personal things. And that's another thing that I don't know where I got that from. I've never been afraid of making a mistake. I've just said, listen, at least that's one way I know I shouldn't do it again. Or I see that even in dentists that I mentor and speak to that they...
refuse to take the next step in fear of the failure. You know, and again, it's just how I'm wired. I don't have a problem if I'm failing. If I fail, I go, okay, well, maybe this will work. And I keep on trying until it works. Or I'm very perceptive or very observant about people that have done it correctly, that become my mentors. And I go, okay, well, that's probably gonna work. Let me do that. And then I try it, though. You have to try it. And the problem with trying things is,
Some people not only are afraid of failure, they don't like change. And I thrive on change. I mean, I love it. And that's an unusual thing too. I don't think the average human being, maybe you can tell me about you, I don't think the average human being enjoys change too much from what I saw or see.
Shawn Zajas (:Well, especially that's where I think you're more of an anomaly in the dental space. And part of it, again, could be because of just that brilliant opportunity you had early on to get mentored by two amazing individuals, but they also seem to be fairly different. I don't know if the relational soft skills one was also more visionary and entrepreneurial too, or was he conservative but just good with people?
Victor Martel (:Mm -hmm.
Victor Martel (:Very different, right?
Victor Martel (:Probably the latter. And really, the reason I say that is, and again, I don't know how I fell into these things. After about, and this was, don't get me wrong, you gotta remember, this was back in the late 80s. So this was a long time ago, probably before you were born by a long shot. The gentleman that could talk to people and everybody would listen to him also had the worst collections in the office, right?
Shawn Zajas (:-huh.
Victor Martel (:because he didn't care. And all of a sudden, one day I walk in and there, this was after I'd been there a while, and back in the 80s, just he had a receivership of $275 ,000, which was a lot back then. And I go, that doesn't work. And the other gentleman kind of just was too busy clinically to really care about it as much. He cared about the clinical side, which I really enjoyed.
So believe it or not, after two years, I was paying all the bills in the office. I'm the one that started a retirement account for them. They had never had a retirement account. I was doing payroll for them. And I had never done it before. I just figured somebody's gotta do it, so let me do it. And that's where I learned years ago, and this is what I tell Dennis now. You know, I'd rather stay home and lay on the beach than work for free. In other words, if you're not gonna collect it, then, you know.
Don't do it. But there's this mentality of the dentist, and I understand it, they want to be nice people, they want to be a nice guy or nice person, and they just want to say yes to everybody. And that does, you know, you still have to run a business, and that doesn't work.
Shawn Zajas (:But it's just so interesting to find, like in you this fusion where it's like, I don't know, so many things that you're expressing are really like the mindsets of the most accomplished individuals. Even some of the greatest artists I know that are designers or freelancers, it's difficult for them to collect because of that whole like,
Victor Martel (:Yes.
Shawn Zajas (:I don't know, the whole starving artist thing is great. It's like you want to create great art, but at the same time to have to put a value on it and to have to, you know, I don't know. It's just there's a challenge there. And it seems like...
Victor Martel (:There is a big challenge there. I think the situation that maybe the only difference between me and people that I meet sometimes is when I hear of something or I see something, I kind of tend to take it, internalize it, and then learn from it instead of just internalize it. I'll give you an example. Probably the best dental instructor I had in dental school, and I mean the guy was phenomenal, was the same way what you just said. Horrible at collections, horrible. Well.
Right after dental school, right here through the grapevine, he committed suicide in his office. And this gentleman was young. He was 28, 29 years old. But I knew a lot of details about him because he would share private details when we were just talking as a student, a teacher, and in private. But I go, you know, I can't be that either. Maybe this is where I learned it from my parents. Maybe that common thread is...
When I hear something, I go, okay, I'm not gonna be that. I hear this, okay, I'm not gonna be that. So now, what do I choose to be? And sometimes what I choose to be takes the learning or have to learn it from somebody else. But at least I know that I'm not gonna be the other thing that I know doesn't work. And it's just worked out for me so far.
Shawn Zajas (:Well, there's just so much wisdom. I literally had a conversation with my kids yesterday saying like, hey, some of the greatest lessons in life. Yeah, you're going to have to learn on your own. I'm like, but a fool is someone that only learns through what they have to do. Like a wise person goes, like my brother, for example, he was 13 months older than me and he would just climb a little higher in the tree and fall and break his arm. And I'd be like, okay, don't climb that high. He would run up, go a little faster on the scooter and hit something and split his head open and go, okay, don't be that reckless. Like,
Victor Martel (:Absolutely.
Shawn Zajas (:I learned so much from my older brother because he was just a little faster, more reckless, a little crazier. And I developed almost like an innate caution of like, just don't redline it because my brother was the one that redlined it. And I learned early on, he's saying something right now, my parents aren't reacting well to him wanting to go to the school dance so he can be with girls or whatnot. Like,
Victor Martel (:Exactly.
Shawn Zajas (:if I ever have a conversation like this, I need to handle it from a different perspective. Because, you know, like I was exactly, I was in a place where I was able to learn what to do and what not to do by observing those people that were before me. And there is such a wisdom in that. And yet the same exact time, you know, there's also those hard fought lessons that I come out on the other end and I'm like, okay, like, because I walk through this, because I survived this, it's as real as real can be.
And it seems like you're trying to light on a learner.
Victor Martel (:Yeah, I have two sons and it's a two -edged sword. I have two sons and because of all that I went through, right, I'm very quick to give them advice. Well, don't do it that way. And because I, you know, and it's hard because it's and by nature, I'm a teacher, you know, it's kind of the other side of who I am. But when it was with my kids and I know that I did it that way and it didn't work, I want that. I would love for them to avoid that instead of go through what I did to get there.
But sometimes too quickly to volunteer that information, which makes it harder for me to let them find their own path. So.
Shawn Zajas (:And I think that's the most challenging part of being a parent or being a mentor, especially when you kind of know what the wise path would be. But it's like, what lesson are they going to learn if you just tell them the lesson versus if they, but at the same time, you don't want them to lose a limb.
Victor Martel (:Mm -hmm, very much so.
Victor Martel (:Exactly. It's, you know, it's, it's a two -edged sword. I mean, I was just out this morning golfing a little bit, not just a little, you know, practicing. And my son is with me and he doesn't play golf, but he wants to learn. And I'm just so, and I catch myself. I'm so quick to go, no, don't do it that way. No, let me show you this. And I need to just kind of go have fun. Just do it. You know what I mean? And enjoy yourself. Cause if he's around me all the time, he's going to get this, well, here's what I would do. And it's, you know,
And you know this as well as anybody else does. Your kids don't necessarily listen to you as much as somebody else does. As soon as I leave the house and get on an airplane, I'm the expert no matter where I go. When I come home, I'm the same guy that goes, go take that trash out. Yeah, Dad, I already know. You don't have to tell me. And that's hard. It's a fine line because you want to help because you get passionate about you know what works. And that's the way I am when I teach. But on the other hand, with your family, you kind of kind of...
pull back a little bit, which makes it difficult.
Shawn Zajas (:You know, one thing that's interesting to me is that you were talking about your two mentors and how, I don't know, maybe the one that was, again, not good with collections. Like, I think probably in the late 80s, the idea of entrepreneurs wasn't as popularized, right? It wasn't as like, be free, kind of do your own thing, think outside the box. And yet, I kind of thought then it was something that was emergent and new.
Victor Martel (:Definitely not.
Shawn Zajas (:but had never been around before. And then I spoke with Chuck Blakeman, who's pseudo in our industry. I don't know, he's kind of in dental, but he's a business coach, business author. And he was talking about how like the industrial age is really what turned everyone from a small business owner into now, because there's these massive factories and into like a just do this one thing. You're not a cog turner. You're now working for.
Victor Martel (:Exactly.
Shawn Zajas (:for the enterprise, for the corporation, where before it was like, whatever your trade was, whether you were a blacksmith or a farmer, like you kind of had some freedom to do that thing how you wanted to in some ways. And maybe you just did what everyone else did, but it was still your small business. It was your entity. Yeah. So I think the second it kind of re -emerged, I'm sure there's a little bit more innovation and creativity and freedom for people.
Victor Martel (:Yes, absolutely. They're like little cottage industries. Yeah.
Shawn Zajas (:because of technologies now with the internet and everything like that. But it's neat to know that the small business model of independent ownership was actually, I don't know, much more of a foundation, at least even with the founding of our nation, than simply this idea that we just do what we're told and work for the man and stay in the same.
Victor Martel (:Yeah, and that was the other thing that probably attracted me to dentistry is, and maybe it's different now, because I see the landscape of what's happening in dentistry today. And when I came out and what I'd noticed is even at being in receivership for 275, he was happy. He had more money than he knew what to do with. He honestly didn't care about that. And he had his cars, he had his houses, he had his things. And that became a moot point to him.
But on the other hand, dentistry as a whole was much more of individual cottage industries. I mean, when I came into that practice, and this sounds crazy, we were considered the unusual large group, and it was only three of us. Because everybody practiced solo practitioners, everybody. So when you saw a group, they go, why are you doing that? You know, why?
Are you guys like some kind of business as opposed? And we go, no, we just decided to pool our funds and have one building and things like that. But so what we see now didn't exist. Well, in my mind that I knew didn't exist back then. And we were the large monster on the block, which would be laughable today. So.
Shawn Zajas (:That is neat that that was like almost like an early forerunner type model of what eventually has now become, you know.
Victor Martel (:Yeah, which has its good and bad. I mean, the DSO model, the private equity model, there's a lot of great things that have to do with it. And just like everything else, there's other things that I look at and I'm concerned about. But things change, and you got to go with the change, I guess.
Shawn Zajas (:So when you saw great clinical excellence in one doctor and you saw great EQ, people skills, know how to connect in the other doc, how would you value the two? So if you were talking to a young doctor and they're like, all they're thinking is like, CE, need to be more weaponized with clinical expertise, how do you speak to someone like that that might not be aware of some of the softer skills, business skills that are necessary?
Victor Martel (:Mm -hmm.
Victor Martel (:Yeah.
Hahaha!
Victor Martel (:You know, what a great question. Because they're both are so vital. You can be the best clinician in the world. And if the patients don't know it, if they don't get along with you, if you're just this mean grumpy old person, you'll survive in spite of yourself. On the other hand, there's the other side of that.
with dentists that have tremendous soft skills and their clinical skills aren't great. And if somebody were to ask me, and I get this question a lot into my lecture, what do I do first? And what I tell them is, listen, become a great clinician. That's absolutely mandatory. And here's the difference. I don't mean mandatory for success.
Because the definition of success is different for everybody. I mean, become a great clinician so that the patients achieve something and are healthy for a long time. But on the other hand, if you're home and you're reading, read psychology books, read the power of influence, read the things that you understand the other side of it, and never think that CE is just how to prep a tooth.
There's so much more out there than that. Here's what a lot of non -dentists forget or don't even realize maybe. We're taught to be scientists, meaning the average dentist is either a chem major or a biology major. There's other ones, but engineering maybe. This is how you get into dental school because you have to have a certain grade point average. Now you're a scientist. Then you have to take your admissions test, which is all science. Then you get into dental school.
It's all science.
Victor Martel (:And unfortunately, and I don't have a problem saying this, the majority of people you learn from, your professors, are horrible people skills, horrible. And this is who you learn from. And if they were really successful, good people people, they wouldn't be teaching, they'd be out there doing it. That's the other side of things, right? So, but all of a sudden, they hand you a diploma and somebody has to, somebody waves a magic wand over you and you become this great conversationalist. You become this great communicator. You become this great.
No, you don't. Not only that, you need to be an MBA, you need to be a psychologist, you need to be an HR person, you need to be a, and that's overwhelming for people, right? And it took me years of doing those things and years of mistakes to get where I was comfortable at both sides of things. But if you never pursue it, it's not gonna happen anyway, right? If you pursue clinical skills without soft skills, great, your patients look good, good treatment. It doesn't mean you're gonna be financially successful.
which is a misnomer, I see a lot of posts about, you know, I'll just get your great clinical skills and the money will follow. No, it won't. I'm sorry, it won't. And then on the other side, you know, well, as long as you know how to talk to patients, it really doesn't matter how good you are. Well, I don't agree with that, you know? So there's this balance that you have to figure out, but I think everybody else has to figure it out for themselves. And pretty much, I mean, I don't think I've ever read a dental book when I'm home.
You know, clinical stuff is, I would sit in my office maybe at lunch and look at some journal or something. But when I get home, now I'm reading something else. And again, I don't know where I got that from.
Shawn Zajas (:Well, that's what's so neat is that it seems like you have this amazing business understanding. You're not afraid at all to try new things, to learn. And yet at the same time, you are the scientist that wants great clinical outcomes and wants to reduce liability. And that's the crazy thing is that sometimes they seem like they're crazy at odds of like in someone's mouth, you want to be risk averse, reduce liability and focus on excellent outcomes.
Victor Martel (:Absolutely.
Shawn Zajas (:But then in business, it's like, you don't mind dancing with uncertainty, risking a lot more. It's a lot more almost like carefree and careless, where you wouldn't describe that as an approach to a clinical outcome, being carefree and careless. No, you have to really. So the fact that there is these seemingly opposites, and yet you have found harmony. I wouldn't necessarily say balance, but you found harmony in excelling in both.
Victor Martel (:Correct. Right.
Shawn Zajas (:That probably equips you in a certain way to be able to teach and speak. When did your speaking career start?
Victor Martel (:That's an interesting story. I've always enjoyed it, meaning, I think I, I don't know if there's a teaching gene in the DNA, but it was just part of my wiring. And what I always realized, and I didn't even know the saying until afterwards, what is it, learn one, teach one, or do one, learn one, do one, teach one, that old.
But I realized that I enjoyed communicating. So years ago, probably 25, 30 years ago, after I'd been out of practice for about five years or so, we had this dental organization locally that had 500 dentists as members, and you would have these separate classes on different days. And somebody, they got invited to speak, and I was invited to run a course. Now, I will tell you, I had to take a day out of my office.
It was completely for free. And not only was it free, actually, if you think about it, I'm losing a day's production. It was always on a Monday. I was paying for it dearly. And I remember at that point, I had just gotten married and my wife says to me, why are you doing this for free? And then secondly, why are you giving them all your little gems or whatever you want to say? And I...
All I could say to her is, you know, I don't know, but I'm not going to stop. And someday, I'm going to get so good at this, somebody's going to pay me to do it. And I had no clue whether that was ever going to happen, but that's what I felt. And that's how that all started. And then, you know, I did that for a few years and then it worked out where I started being asked to do some lectures here and there and that kind of burned slowly for a while. And then it -
It took off after a certain point, but yeah, it was just part of probably who I am more than it was anything else. And I literally, I realized as I was speaking that I was learning as I'm speaking. And I tell, I trained a lot of speakers over the years and I said, listen, you're going to get so much out of speaking that you're not even going to be aware of. Because if you, you really have to know your material.
Victor Martel (:to be comfortable speaking. That's why I was just reading, I'm actually right now reading in the middle of a Dale Carnegie book, believe it or not, it's called The Power of the Art of Public Speaking. Now I'm already a public speaker, but there's gotta be something I can learn from the book, right? So why not read it? But ultimately it was a situation where I enjoyed the feedback so much and the relationships so much that I probably would have spoke for free for quite a number of years more, but they started asking me to do stuff for...
for pay and I did it. And I gave up a day in the practice to do it a lot, but I just enjoyed it so much it became part of who I was.
Shawn Zajas (:So there's a few times now, Victor, that you've mentioned this idea of, I guess I was just wired that way. And then you just, in this last statement, made something like, you know, it's just the way I, or something about my being. Has there, professionally speaking, has there been a part of your journey where you face some sort of limitation where,
your default or your wiring you felt like almost wasn't serving you and you still had to overcome or figure something out. And if so, how did you handle that?
Victor Martel (:interesting question. I mean, what I maybe I didn't realize is that, and I learned this over time as well, was that not only did you have to be a good communicator with patients, one of the things at first when I started really putting a lot of effort into being a better communicator was that there's different people are different, you know, there's these, you know, engineers, and there's these people that are, you know,
they're moved emotionally and there's people that are moved in a certain way, an academic way, or they want the detail. And what I learned was at one point, I was just giving them the information, the same for everybody.
That doesn't work. So another skill that you have to pick up is you have to be able to read people and know how to communicate with them. And that was probably the hardest part at first was, and I don't mean this in a negative way, but almost how can you be a chameleon? How can you change so that you're communicating effectively to the person that may not be like you?
And at first, just like everything else, you're riding a bike, you fall a few times, and it trips you up. And then, you kind of like, goes on and on. That worked. And ultimately, it seemed to work. And that took time. It took a couple years of probably a lot of mistakes. When I talk about dentistry to dentists, and one of the things I really enjoy doing is talking about my failures as much as I talk about what I achieved. And I just tell them, listen,
When you hear me talk about a mistake, I call that research. That's my research. Okay? So I'm not gonna say I failed, I'm not gonna say I made a mistake. I literally look at them during the lecture and after about half a day they get it. So that's your research, right? I go, yeah, that's my research. And what I learned in that research is I'm not gonna do it that way anymore. And ultimately the path is now let's find the way that works for me. So probably that more than anything was learning that you can't communicate, and I see this with speakers as well out there.
Victor Martel (:that their mode of speaking is the same for everybody. And I'm sure you see this. You have to, and the hardest thing for me to teach other speakers is how to read an audience, how to know whether you're being effective or whether you need to change it a little bit and be more humorous or be more passionate about something. And that, you gotta pick up cues. That's what makes a Zoom lecture, for example, so difficult.
Shawn Zajas (:So difficult, especially if people don't turn their video on.
Victor Martel (:my gosh, it's like there's no energy. There's nothing, you know, and a lot of times my lectures are, you know, seven hours long. I could never, you know, most I'm going to last that I'll zoom lectures too. And that's a lot because there's just nothing. It's just deadness and void. And I, you know, maybe that's the reason I really hate them. I mean, I just, because there's no connection, there's no human interaction with them, but you have to do what you have to do. And now that fortunately COVID is over,
The only thing I do on Zoom now is deposition for attorneys and things like that, but other than that, which I don't need my soft skills for. But that's about it.
Shawn Zajas (:It seems like in your journey, you've been so great at aligning your destination and what you're doing with your strengths, like with just the natural giftings you've been given. Like you are an amazing communicator, Victor. And it's interesting because it's like dentistry, you know, if you take this assessment, you know, maybe entrepreneurial, you know, great at communication, go into dentistry. And yet, right, right. But it really does, it does reward you because,
Victor Martel (:Definitely not. Yeah, I could see that.
Shawn Zajas (:That's where you can separate from those that might just be great with their hands and might just be great clinicians, but like you're saying, almost like afraid to connect with a patient or not really knowing how, or not really knowing how to understand that when they're saying, when they're not accepting treatment, it's just because they got lost already and they didn't understand what was really offered and they didn't really understand their payment options. So because of that, since they got confused, they just tried to save face.
Victor Martel (:Right.
Victor Martel (:Yes.
Shawn Zajas (:And the dentist is confused saying, like, why did that happen? Where you have that ability to read someone and understand based off the nonverbal cues in their body language. Like, that probably served you like crazy, but yet it wouldn't have been an intuitive. you're great with people. Go into dentistry.
Victor Martel (:Yeah, I...
Victor Martel (:Well, and that's the thing. I mean, and I'm sure you've heard this many times from other people is when I'm speaking or when I'm doing things like this, most people are under the misconception that I'm an extrovert. I am not an extrovert. I'm a much of an introvert, very much so. I mean, when I'm lecturing and I'm up there talking for seven hours, I'll stay and talk to everybody and answer their questions. When I get back to the airport, I'm shutting down. I put my noise reduction headphones on. I don't want to talk to anybody.
Not even the person sitting next to me. And that's just, but I know how to just turn it on when I need to turn it on. And then I need my personal time, my downtime. But it's become difficult out there with the new climate for dentists because, and I see the issues. You're dealing with 300, 400, 500 thousand dollars in debt. They're getting.
you know, job offers at places that are, you're not gonna be your own boss, you're gonna be an employee, do you want that? And how do they even know they want that if they've never pursued the entrepreneurial side of it? You know, and it's just this, dentistry's in it, to me, it's in an exciting time, but it's in a very difficult time. It's a very pressure time for people. And do you wanna stay where you're at? Because it's nice to go just get a paycheck.
and not have to deal with all the administrative side of dentistry. But are you gonna be happy? And I see the struggle in the young dentists right now and I read it, I'm on a lot of the groups that you're on and I read things and I just, I feel bad. I go, you know, because I was in, I just happened to be the generation before which seemed like if you did everything well and you did your clinical skills and you knew how to talk to people, you could be successful at it.
Shawn Zajas (:Yeah, I feel like now not only are the options different for dentists, but consumers and patients just expect more.
Victor Martel (:Mmm.
Victor Martel (:Well, the internet didn't help, right? You know, the old fun joke, Dr. Google, you know, I mean, I didn't have patients. When I was first 10, 15 years, I had to educate the patients on everything because there was no internet. There was no thing where they could look up things. And if it was, it was very limited information. So it makes it much more difficult. So you're coming into a situation where patients are highly educated to some degree and they think they know what they want.
And that becomes a challenge because, and I say this to dentists all the time, and the first time I say it, they really don't get it. And when I teach, I say to them, you don't have to work on every patient. You can say no. And a lot of them don't understand that from a standpoint of, well, why wouldn't I? Because I teach treatment planning, a lot of comprehensive treatment planning and things, and they go.
And I go, so they come with the question, I say, well, let me ask you a question. Why did you do it that way? Just give me some information. And their answer is, well, that's what the patient wants.
And I go, the patient doesn't have a dental degree. Why would you do that? And then my statement to all of them is the same. I said, listen, it's better to do nothing than the wrong thing to a patient.
Just because a patient asks for something doesn't mean you have to say yes. And that saying no to a patient is probably the most freeing thing a dentist can ever do. Because now there's not this pressure of I have to please everybody. See dentists are, to me, personalities in their office, they're people pleasers, right? They wanna please their patients, they wanna, because that's their perception of success, meaning more patients will come to see me.
Shawn Zajas (:Right, right. Everyone's happy with me, I'm doing a good job.
Victor Martel (:Yeah, they like me, they love me, which is even a deeper thing, right? They not only want to be successful, they want to be liked. They want to be loved, right? You know, my wife says this about me all the time. I honestly don't mind if somebody doesn't like me. I honestly don't because I'm comfortable in my own skin where if you have a problem or don't like me, I'm okay with that. I'm fine. It's not going to change my life.
But I know that deep down in my office, I'm doing what I feel is the right thing. There's no right answer, but what's right in your heart and what's right in your mind.
Shawn Zajas (:See, that's powerful because that liberates you and allows you to be in that place of like being at peace, being authentic, and just being like, I don't need to fake who I am or try to be someone I'm not to accommodate.
Victor Martel (:And that's what I say to dentists. I say, listen, you want to sleep better at night? Just do what you think is right. And if somebody walks out, that's okay. It's more than okay. You're going to be happier. But it's a hard thing to register to somebody that's a scientist that wants to be liked, that's probably been, has a low self -esteem. A lot of dentists have very low self -esteem. I get it. You were treated poorly in dental school. It really stems a lot of problems. But...
They need to learn to get over it. I hate to use the word get over it, but they need to change. It's a difficult situation.
Shawn Zajas (:So when did Martel Academy come forth?
Victor Martel (:Martell Academy, originally it's been around a long time, but it got heavily into it probably about seven years ago. It's been around for about 15, I would guess. And then I started having some people speak under my academy and things like that. But it got super busy probably about 10 years ago now where it kept me, I had a full -time practice and I was still traveling 40 weeks a year speaking. It was just.
It was brutal. I worked Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, leave Thursday night for a flight, speak all day Friday, come home Saturday. And it started all over again. You know, airlines love me. But other than that, it was it was a it was a chore. So I kind of cut back after COVID. So now I'm still going. Don't get me wrong. I'm still probably gone 20, 25 weeks a year, but I don't have the full time practice anymore. So it's become a better balance for me.
Shawn Zajas (:So are you doing the speaking and the coaching and consulting?
Victor Martel (:Yeah, yes. I mean, it's so funny. My wife jokes. I mean, she's just, so how many jobs actually do you have? But I have to sit there and count them because now we can eliminate the full -time practice, which is, you know, in and of itself a big burden on most dentists. Teaching, lecturing around the country and mentoring. And I mentor a lot of dentists and a lot of it's for free. If they call me up, I'm going to go, I'm going to help them out. I don't have a problem with that because I enjoy it.
And then I do, I consult for advice on about two or three private equity groups that are either looking for oral surgeons or things like that. And the reason is, in the last 10 years of my career, a lot of the speaking I would do would be for oral surgery host, and then he'd invite 50 of his referrals. So I got to meet a lot of oral surgeons, a lot of periodontists over the years. And so I got to understand their processes as well. So.
And I understand who's good and who's not based on certain criteria. So therefore private equity groups got interested in me. At first they would find out that they were looking at an oral surgeon and they would call me up, do you know this guy? And it was, you know, great guy, great practice, go for it. And then same thing on the other side. I said, you know, slow down on that one. And that kind of developed over time. And then it became the same thing. It grew into the GPs and things. So.
That's how all that started. And then lastly, another thing I do is I've been doing,
expert witness work for probably 15 years. Yeah. Yeah. And I do. And that's a that's a whole nother story. That's a it used to be. And it's a sad story, unfortunately. It used to be I started doing it years ago. I got asked to do it. And, you know, maybe I'd read six cases a year, maybe. So it wasn't overwhelming. It was like, all right, whatever. Well, the landscape changing, I'm probably reading six or seven cases a month.
Shawn Zajas (:You think?
Victor Martel (:It's something, you know. And at first when I started, 98 % of it was for defense, and now still probably 70 % is defense, but I still do a lot of plaintiff when I think it's really something that unfortunately the patient was at a disadvantage of. And, you know, so I do that as well. But I try to be on the defense side and give everybody the benefit of the doubt. But when you would do it as long as I do, you can kind of read a case and
know right off the bat. And many times I'll get lawyers that call me and they say, listen, do you think, and they're on the plaintiff's side, do you think this is a good case? I go, no, the guy didn't do anything wrong. Don't even go there. And other times I have to go, well, yeah, there's a problem here. So that's become a very busy part of my life, unfortunately. And I think the busyness of it is because of the, I don't know, I hate to kind of pin it down to one thing, but a lot of...
you know, these, for lack of a better word, franchise practices out there, big, huge ones, that the dentists are only staying two or three years. You know, so there's a lot of turnover. And with that comes inconsistent treatment. And with that comes unfortunate circumstances for some patients. So.
Shawn Zajas (:So I think because of your success and your giftings and skills, all these doors open up to you. How do you choose which one to pursue or follow? Because it seems like you're involved even now in so many different things. And I think you like that. Like you're saying, you kind of like, I can see, I don't want to say you get bored quickly, but you like the challenge and the new thing. And you challenge yourself to continue to grow.
Victor Martel (:New thing, yeah, definitely, yeah.
Shawn Zajas (:and make a bigger impact. But like, I don't know, when you're evaluating decisions, like, is it the decision something you make primarily with your head or with your gut? Like, how do you know what's the right decision for you?
Victor Martel (:One of the things I go by mostly is, is it a topic that I really know really well?
For example, I would have never gone into the advisorieship of private equity and things if I hadn't had these years of being in different people's offices and having dinner with surgeons and people all over the country 40 weeks a year for 10 years. Because if they would have asked me, I would have gone, I don't know, and I'm the first one to admit, even my wife asked me something or my kids asked me, and if it's something I don't know, I just go, I don't have an idea. I don't want to comment on something I don't know about.
That's silly, right? So the private equity became simple because I kind of fell into it when I started getting some calls from some of the private equity guys who had heard about me through, I don't even know half the time. And it was something that I go, okay, I know what that is. I know what that is. I know how to advise you on that. And then the, so that's kind of how that happened. How the other one, the legal work happened, which was purely accidental, was my old previous partner from many, many years ago.
was getting sued by a patient. And I knew for a fact, because I was in the office, that he had done nothing wrong, nothing. But unfortunately, through that process, and I wouldn't wish this on anybody, the dentist, the lawyer has to visit the dentist and get his story and put him through depositions and all those kinds of things. But every time that would happen through this case, and fortunately, they dropped the charges because he didn't do anything wrong, the attorney would come out
off the side and my other partner would leave and he'd start chewing my ear off. Just, hey, what do you think about this? And I would just give him my opinion and go, you know, this is what I think here, you know, about dentistry. And he said to me one day out of the blue, you ever thought about being an expert to defend dentists? And I go, no, but I think it's something I could do because it's, you know, it's what I teach, right? And that's how it all happened. It was just, so it's, you know, I hate to sound like, excuse me, that I kind of trip over things, but.
Shawn Zajas (:Yeah.
Victor Martel (:Here's what I know. I know if I don't know it well, I'm just going to say no right away. I'm just going to go, no. And what I really mean by that is get somebody better than me. Now to give you an idea of how that works in my practice, when I was practicing full time, I did the same thing in my practice, meaning I didn't enjoy oral surgery, hated it. And if you think back deeply, it's probably because I wasn't any good at it. Right? So.
What would I do? Well, if I didn't think I was any good at it, I just wouldn't do it, number one. Or your choices are to either not do it or to go get more training, right? So for me, I felt better, or I felt that my patients were better served if they went to somebody that is better than me at it.
So my practice became this almost like triage, meaning, let's see, I don't do perio, I don't do oral surgery, I don't do ortho. But I learned through my communications, because I know how to develop a great team, and that's what I did. So I knew what I know, and I know what I don't know really well. And when I don't know something, I'm the first one to admit I don't know it, so I'm going to say, hey, go to my buddy, the oral surgeon.
I've had patients beg me in the chair, why can't you just do it? I don't want to drive anywhere. I go, listen, you don't want me doing it. Because I don't like it and I'm not good at it. So go to this person and you're going to get a great job and great service. And maybe that's because even back then, and I still say this to dentists today, the money has never been an issue for me, meaning I didn't do it for the money. Right. And I think that's what makes the struggle hard today is the debt these people, these dentists are under that maybe.
Shawn Zajas (:Yep.
Victor Martel (:And I say this while I'm lecturing, maybe that decision is harder for you than it would have been for me back then.
because I didn't have $500 ,000 in debt. I don't know what that feels like. But I see debtors pursuing a lot of things, different alternate plans and skill sets, hard skill sets. That in my mind, and this might sound old school to you, if you just concentrated on getting really, really good at what you do really, really well, you'll be fine. It's just everybody wants to be a jack of all trades because it's the money situation, right? It's the...
Shawn Zajas (:Yeah.
Victor Martel (:how much money you're going to make in any one year. And I was on a post the other day and the area said something about, you know, something about, you know, if you're, it was actually what we were talking about. What's better to be successful at, clinical skills or soft skills? And I go, what's your definition of success? Happiness or lots of money? You know, and everybody's answer is going to be different. For me, it was always become a really good communicator.
Shawn Zajas (:I...
Victor Martel (:and really the best I can be clinical skills. And that's as good as I can do. And then I sleep at night. That's a good thing.
Shawn Zajas (:Well, plus I think maybe if you know that you don't, that the people skills is something that's going to be a big challenge. Maybe be a specialist. Someone refers to you, you do great work, but you don't need to carry them as a patient like a GP would need to, or like a patient for life where there is relationship, there is rapport, there is connection. It's like, be a specialist, keep training your clinical skills, be a lecturer or something like that. But it's like, if you really want,
Victor Martel (:Right.
Victor Martel (:Absolutely.
Shawn Zajas (:to connect to patients, then you're gonna have to get those people skills developed.
Victor Martel (:Yeah, and the challenge is, and this is where I do coaching for specialists, is oral surgeons and periodontists and endodontists and things, because they don't know how to build people's skills with their referrals.
Shawn Zajas (:you're right, you're right, you're right. That still matters. Like you can't run from the fact that you still need to know how to treat people well, connect well, listen.
Victor Martel (:100%. I mean, I've met this oral surgeon in Carolinas and we're having dinner and this is one question that I always would ask surgeons. And he's kind of grumpy and complaining a little bit. So I kind of go, well, if you mind me ask you a question, I go, he goes, sure. Why should people send to you?
And he sat and he thought about it for a second. He goes, "'Cause I'm the best in the area." And I go, I'm glad you are, but that's not everything it takes. How do your referrals feel about you? How often do you have a personal touch with them? Have you ever just said, come on, let's go out to dinner and let's talk about, and then here's the thing, and this is my pet peeve, okay? And I did this on my own. I did this to one of my referrals.
I'm one of my specialists. I had a habit of about every three months taking me out to lunch, which a lot of them, they don't do that as much as they used to. And we'd go to lunch and he'd say to me, you know, hi the kids and blah, blah, blah. And we'd finish lunch and we'd leave.
Victor Martel (:And I literally said to myself one day, you know what, next time I see him, I'm gonna ask him a really important question for me. And they go, and he, like, yeah, I'm gonna do it. It took me a little bit of getting my bravery up or things, but I said, let me ask you a question, Bill or Joe, whatever you wanna say. How come when we're here for lunch, you never ask me, how's the practice going? What can I do better for you? How are the patients responding to me?
Is there anything we can do different? Because that's valuable to me, right? I don't really care about the lunch. It's a free meal, okay? What I really care about is this, meaning how can we work together better so that our patients are happier? And he had no answer. It was kind of like, I never thought about it. I'll give you a quick little story. Same guy, right? You know how the specialists send you gifts.
Yeah, you know, like candies and stuff at Christmas time, cookies and all that stuff. And by the time the dentist gets back there, it's eaten by the team. It's gone. It doesn't matter. Anyways, the same guy every year would send me these really high -end tin of peanuts. Beautiful, right? For 15 years. I'm allergic to peanuts.
Hahaha.
Victor Martel (:But I never said anything because the staff ate the peanuts, you know, whatever. That was fine. But think about that. Think about how you don't even know that about me and I've been working with you for 15 years. How do you not know that?
So finally, this was a, I had just built a new office and my wife was in the office for a year or so. It's around Christmas time. The peanuts come in. She didn't know anything about this.
and the peanuts come in. She goes, who are these from? that's Dr. So -and -so. And I go, you always send your peanuts? I go, yeah, that's every year. He doesn't know you're allergic to peanuts? And I go, I guess not. She calls up the office and says, did you know Dr. Martel is allergic to peanuts? my God. And she's a little tougher than me. She goes, did you ever think to ask?
Victor Martel (:Those are the little things that make a successful practice. You know what I mean? If it was me, if I had an office manager, and I tell this to specials all the time, if I had an office manager, I would have them call up the most important person that's the non -dentist in the office and find out everything, the little warm things that that dentist loves. Does he love the Miami Dolphins? Does he love a certain bottle of scotch? Does he love this? And guess what? Yeah, every dentist, every GP's gift is gonna be different.
Okay, so what? But a lot of the specialists out there, they go to Costco, they get a grocery cart, they throw in 50 cans of peanuts, and everybody gets the same thing.
There's no soft skills, there's no touch, there's no personalization of it, there's no nothing. And then they wonder why aren't these people loyal if another specialist moves in.
Victor Martel (:The reason is you're no different than anybody else to them, right? You have to be different.
Shawn Zajas (:And that's exactly, like that's such a profound story because it just speaks in volumes to if you want differentiation right now and you want to stand apart, you can't just treat everybody like they're the same. Like I said, patients expect more. And, and that's just, yeah, there's this idea of let's just get 50 of the same thing and pass them out to everybody, you know.
I'll never forget, we, growing up, we went to Disney World, you know, in Florida, we lived in New Hampshire and we were, we did a road trip and my dad stopped by one of his buddies in college at the time, you know, it was in North Carolina and his buddy was engaged and about to get married and, and my mom and dad, you know, met the woman and, you know, they're asking all these questions and they found out where they want to go on their honeymoon and all these things. And then we go to Disney and on the way back, we stopped back through North Carolina.
and meet with them and all of a sudden my parents are like, sorry, like she's just, she's not for you. Like we can just tell like it, it doesn't sit right. And as we're on the road trip back, I'm like, mom, dad, like, A, I don't know how he received that so well, but B, how could you guys tell that she wasn't for him? And my dad's like, he's been my friend for forever. He lived in Hawaii, stationed for the military or something like that. And he hates Hawaii.
Victor Martel (:Yeah.
Shawn Zajas (:And when we asked her, where do you want to go on your honeymoon? And she's like, he's going to take me to Hawaii. Like, cause I've always wanted to go to Hawaii. We realized right then and there, she never cared to listen to the fact that he hates Hawaii. He hates it. And it was just, right. Like, or we're even caring to ask. Like, it's a yellow flag, if not a red flag of like, you never even cared to ask.
Victor Martel (:you
Victor Martel (:Hahaha!
Victor Martel (:Absolutely.
Victor Martel (:That's crazy, isn't it? And it's just a matter of listening.
Victor Martel (:There you go. Exactly. Asking the right questions, right?
Shawn Zajas (:This isn't a, he's going to serve me the rest of my life. It's something you guys are doing together. And sure, your relationship with a specialist isn't a marriage, but it is to some sorts of, it's a partnership. And those that know how to serve that partnership in a way where it's win -win and they care about what the other person is going through, those are the partnerships that excel and thrive. And if you can make those connections, your practice is going to skyrocket. So, okay.
Victor Martel (:It's a big part of it, you know, it really is.
Shawn Zajas (:If I'm a meeting planner right now or I'm a dentist and I'm like, okay, I want to reach out and connect with you, Victor, where do you want their eyeballs to go?
Victor Martel (:I want their eyeballs just to go to MartellAcademy .com, obviously. And the interesting thing that most people kind of, they're inquisitive about is my cell phone is the number on there. And I do that all the time, even when I lecture. Second screen I have is my cell phone number. And I say, listen, text me. My email's on there as well. And the reason is, even that to me is personal.
Even that, and I say to them, if you need something, I know you're not gonna abuse it. Send me a text, I'll talk to you, no problem. And you know what, and that's where I feel, and I actually have a whole day lecture, interestingly enough, on the art of patient communication. Because it's, and I created it purely out of what I saw as a need. Not because I wanted to do it. It really wasn't, it was kinda like, when I started talking, because a lot of times when I'm doing, even my clinical lectures, I'll go off into tangents about.
When I start seeing his glazed eyes, I kind of know they're not getting this. It's bouncing off. So maybe I need to create a lecture about it. The majority of other things, as you saw, were very clinical on there. I think, and I just added some, I don't think you know this, I just added a couple of days ago a lot of, I had accumulated all those reviews of previous doctors and things like that.
And I'd never put them on my page. I put them on a page and what you'll see even in those is sure they talk about the clinical skills that I teach them, but they also talk about all this. You know, that he taught me this and he taught me this. And the reason is this is how I teach. I just don't teach well, you know, you need to prep a tooth like this. I go, no, let's talk to the patient. Let's do this. And they get all that because I think that's what an office really is. It's all encompassing communication, skills, clinical skills.
you know, how you treat your staff, which is huge to me. I've never, and I will say this, and I know we don't have a lot of time, in 37 years of full -time practice, I never yelled at a staff member in the office, ever. And the reason is, I learned years ago that if I, I know my personality enough, that if I say something in the heat of anger, I'm gonna say it poor.
Victor Martel (:So if anything, they know that if I get quiet, something's probably bothering me. But then I'll go home and I'll talk to my wife about it and she'll say, well, think about it this way. And then the next day I'm fine and we deal with it. I don't push it down, but at least I'm not dealing with it out of a feeling of an emotional anger issue. And it's worked well for me because a lot of my team members were, my hygienist was with me 30 years, my assistant was working 18 years.
It's because I think it's important to keep that almost like a little, it's another family really when you think about it. I was probably with my team members more than I was with my wife for all those years, right? Eight hours a day for all that time. So I think those are all the things that they can glean besides the clinical skills because I think clinical skills are super important but I think both are like swinging back or circling back to the beginning. Everything's important, soft skills, relationship skills, reading patients, reading people.
And hopefully we can do this more often. And I'll leave you with this, and this is something that I've never told you even. Probably the most, you asked me, I had to think about it for a while when we were just on a phone, or maybe it was in the text that you sent me. Why do you do what you do in the sense of why have you done all these things like this? And what I really think about it is, is it leaving a legacy behind.
You know, what I do now is, yeah, you get the money's nice. All right, but what else did you leave? You know, have you ever read the book, and if you don't, you're at the perfect age. You ever read the book Half Time? Okay. Go on Amazon and buy it. It's a thin little book. But here's what it is. It's written towards a male, but now both genders can read it. When you're young in your life, you're building your business.
Shawn Zajas (:No.
Victor Martel (:When you get to a certain age, you're in the middle, you're making the money because you've built the business. And every time, the second half time is this, and everybody is different, it could be 40, it could be 50, it could be 60. You innately want to leave something behind, and that's your legacy. And that's what this book, Half Times, is about. It's a very small, quick read. But ultimately, I learned that about five, maybe 10 years ago. I said, you know what?
I teach, the money is okay, but if I had to, I got a flight in Mesa, Arizona, they told you about, if I'm just doing it for that, nope, all right, I don't need the money, right? But the situation is, is I'm doing it because if patients are treated better and get better care and dentists are more successful because they have different skill sets, great, that's enough for me. The other stuff is just icing on the cake.
Shawn Zajas (:You know, it has been so easy to just see that you have such a marked humility and you have such a generosity of spirit where I can tell you really want to leave a legacy. You really want to elevate dentistry. You really want to take everything that you've been given and received and fought for and just pour it out so that other people can get to where you got quicker.
Victor Martel (:Yeah, and the given is the right word because I've had fantastic mentors in my life. You know, and you know, you stand on the shoulder of giants, which is the people that I stood on, you know, Pete Daw. I was very blessed. A lot of people that have passed away in dentistry that everybody would know their names in dentistry. And I got to know these people personally. I mean, why me? You know, well, my. I'm just another dentist. You know, the parents didn't even
go to college and it's worked out for me. So if I can do that for somebody else, God, that's fantastic. I've done enough.
Shawn Zajas (:You know, and all the greats I've been around, Victor, they all just ooze honor. And that's what I've picked up even just in this interview. You just have so much honor for the profession, for those that have gone before you. So I absolutely love what you're doing. For everyone that's listening, please check out Martel Academy. If you want to hire Victor to speak at an event, he will not disappoint. Like such a gifted speaker, communicator. Victor, it's just been an honor. Thank you so much for letting me interview you.
Victor Martel (:No.
Victor Martel (:Well, thank you. You're a very easy person to talk to. So, you know, we could probably sit here and do a Joe Rogan interview for like three and a half hours, but I enjoy every minute of it. So, absolutely, anytime, brother, anytime. My pleasure. Take care, buddy.
Shawn Zajas (:We'll just have to do it again. There you go.
Well, thank you so much, Victor.
